The Boldin Factor

yeah, you maybe right??? but i'll always gamble with proven talent that is in their prime anyday over a draft pick. expesially at wr. but yes your stats don't lie, so there is the risk of paying to much money for them, but never trading draft picks. i like your arguement though, because you have merit and it makes sense. it's always true that there are 2 sides to every coin, and both are good, and pay the same.

Dave - Any trade is just as big a gamble as a draft pick. I already brokedown the trades involving receivers that were flops in the comments. More failures than successes.

The Eagles have $40 million under the cap. They can easily pay two first-round picks, especially at 21 and 28. Only the Top 10 picks make an obscene amount of cash. In fact, if you trade for Boldin, you will have to restructure his contract and toss him a huge signing bonus which would be much more than the 1st rounders combined. By the way, the 'Boys paid way too much for Roy Williams. No way I'd give up that for a marginal #1 receiver.

and with 2 first rounders, how much is it going to cost you to sign them? remember, next year maybe un-capped? trade the lower of your 2 first rnders and a 3rd and 6th. you still have one first rounder and ANQUAN BOLDIN to pair with a burner like jackson. you take a rb with your pick in the first, and safty in the 2nd. and you got mcnabb singing like a bird???? i'd do the deal in a heartbeat.

i agree, no one player is worth that, but as JJ said, when you have that many picks, it's not that bad to make the trade. we did pretty much the exact trade that has been suggested here for boldin. we gave a 1st, 3rd, and 6th= for roy williams and a seventh back. our first round pick is the 20th overall, we have 2 3rd round picks. we kept the #5 spot in the 3rd from cleveland and delt our 19th spot in the 3rd. we gave our 19th spot up in the 6th, but have the #1 spot back in the 7th. we will get at least 2 compensation picks ranging from the 4th thru the 7th. so if you break it down, all we really "sacrificed" was that 1st round pick for an established 5th year starter in roy williams. this allowed us to release owens, re-tool our offensive strategy, and allow some of our young wrs to start to emerge with more playing time. so "do the math" and really break that trade down, and what boldin can offer v.s. draft picks that are a gamble anyway. look different now?

Great breakdown, Scott. For the most part that same would apply to my boys. I also agree that the asking price is too high.

The great thing for the Eagles is that they have a LOT of draft choices this year - 12 (2 in first round, 3 in 5th round, 2 in the 6th) plus compensory picks for losing free agents - which god knows we lost a lot of! With that all said, we're looking at probably looking at having 14-15 draft picks.

Now, although we can't trade the compensory picks, we will have them, and they will probably end up being something like a 4th, 5th and 6th round picks - something like that.

We already have 2 1st round picks, and with the additional draft choices we will get, a 1st, 3rd and 6th really doesn't sound that bad for a guy we KNOW will make a difference for us offensively!!

Now, a lot of this is going to come down to draft day - we may end up seeing something like what happened with Randy Moss getting signed on the 2nd day of the draft - because the Eagles are going to want to see if they can get what they want out of those two picks. We all know how draft orders change leading up to draft day.

The other good thing going for us is that this draft has a lot of great receivers in it - even if Boldin doesn't pan out we can get someone great via the draft.

To be honest, I'm really more about getting - as Michael Wilbon says - a BIG BACK to compliment Westbrook. Or, a massive full back to punch it over the line.

This has been a great discussion. Thanks to everyone who has participated. I like being able to debate without hurling curses around or resorting to calling someone an "idiot."

My attempts to downplay Boldin are not to suggest that he couldn't help the team. After getting my hopes up in the past regarding certain players, I now try to put myself in the shoes of the FO to guess how they evaluate players. By doing this, it's easier to take when they don't trade for or sign guys. The Eagles may very well be interested in Boldin, but I have never heard "official word" from them that they are. They did contact the Cardinals about Fitzgerald before last season, and as Anthony stated, they did pursue Randy Moss. Now, Fitzy and Moss are elite "difference makers" not just playmakers. There are a ton of playmakers in the NFL. Houshmandzadeh is a playmaker. Kevin Curtis is a playmaker. The Eagles aren't looking for another guy who makes plays. They want a game-changing stud who can dominate with explosive plays. My feeling is the FO doesn't place Boldin in that category, which is why they probably won't make a deal for him, especially if it costs them a #1 pick. They've already invested money in Curtis and will have to pay DeSean down the road.

As for the window closing, wasn't it supposed to be closed already? I remember most people writing off the Eagles after the 2005 season. Since then, they've been back to the playoffs twice, including another trip to the NFC Title game. It's true McNabb won't last forever and if history shows us anything, Don will be gone in 2011 after his contract is up. That doesn't mean the window will be closed then either. Who's to say Kolb won't be able to step in an be ready to play? To be fair, we haven't seen enough of the kid to pass judgement on him. You can't use one half of a game against a top-rated defense that he didn't prepare for to evaluate a quarterback's abilities. Maybe the guy stinks, but none of know that for certain.

One last thing. I still don't think the Cards will trade Boldin. Coming off a Super Bowl appearance and with Warner back under center, it would make zero sense to deal the guy. He'll have to pull a TO and start doing curls in his driveway. Just my opinion.

Well said Harley.  Like I said I don't wanna give up 12 damn draft picks for the guy, but we all keep asking is he the answer.  Answer to what?  A Super Bowl?  Well, no one wearing Eagles green has been an answer to that.  Who is an answer to that question?  I don't think any one player is.  So, what should a team do in my opinion?  Make upgrades when the opportunity is available.  The Patriots have been the most successful organization this decade.  Look at how they do things.  They had an opportunity to get Moss (who apparently the Eagles wanted too) and they did it.  Have they won the Bowl?  No, but they did go 16-0 and make it to the Super Bowl and lost on an unbelievable play.  They brought in Corey Dillon when he was aging and had supposed attitude problems and won a Super Bowl, and now they apparently are trying to trade for Julius Peppers.  All because those players are better than what they have.  Burress wasn't picked upin atrade, but he helped the Giants to A Super Bowl as well.  If the choice is between uograding with a guy like Boldin, or doing nothing, why shouldn't the Eagles go after him?  McNabb is getting older, and the Eagles need to focus on winning now, not 5 years from now.  If anyone thinks that if the Eagles go into next year with the same fullbacks, the same receivers, Stacy Andrews and Sean Jones, and a few nice draft picks at RB/TE/OL, and that is going to get the job done I would argue they are mistaken.  By the time the Eagles will be reaping the benefits of this year's draft, the window may be closed.

There are a number of ways to look at a "playmaker."  While the numbers above point to one conclusion, the fact that he leads the league in YAC every year would point to the fact that he is a "top playmaker."  Yes, it could be argued that Boldin is a product of Fitzgerald, but if you got back to his rookie season (Pre-Fitzgerald) he was still a monster.

Would I take him?  Yes.  Is he an upgrade over Curtis/Avant?  Yes.  Is he a significant enough upgrade to win us the Super Bowl? Maybe.  Would I give up a 1st and 3rd or more for him?  No.

Hey Scott, some good discussion going on here.  I got to thinking this morning, good Boldin's numbers in the YPC category be more of a product of the Cards personnel and not his individual skills.  What I mean is, with Larry Fitzgerald on your team, it stands to reason that the Cardinals scheme would not send Boldin down field as frequently as Fitzgerald.   In addition, Boldin has had years when he proved he could get down field.  In 2006 he averaged 14.5 YPC.   So, I wonder if his numbers are skewed but the presence and emergence of Fitzgerald.  In any event, the most important number in the stats from my perspective is 11 TDs. 

Either way, you are right that Boldin's greatest attribute is not as a downfield threat.  He is a physical presence that can beat the jam at the line of scrimmage and get the tough yards.  The price will be high if the Eagles want to make a run at him.

I have to agree with you that Boldin is not in the class of some of the other elite players. He definitely would, however,  be a nice fit  for the Eagles because of his size and a great weapon in the red zone. I don't think he's worth 1st, 3rd and 6th round drafts picks but sometimes you have to overpay if your needs dictate it. I think they could be served by drafting a tight end (not necessarily Pettigrew), a running back and a possession receiver like Patrick Turner from USC in  the second or third round.

"...back to the Super Bowl."

Well, that's what we all want, but I'm still not convinced Boldin can do that. In fact, I'm not convinced trading for receivers is ever a good idea. The Eagles have traded for TO and Stallworth and have zero titles to show for it. The Patriots traded for Moss and have zero titles since. The Seahawks traded for Deion Branch and got nothing but injuries in return. The Dolphins traded for David Boston and got nothing but a steroid suspension. The Cowboys traded two #1 picks for Joey Galloway and got a torn ACL and two average seasons. The Chargers traded a 2nd round pick for Chris Chambers and so far have nothing to show. And of course, the Cowboys struck again last season by overpaying for Roy Williams, and his future looks far from promising.

Need I say more? Keyshawn Johnson is the only recent bigtime receiver I can recall who was dealt to a team that went on to win a Super Bowl. He made an impact, but I think we can all agree the Bucs won with defense.

History proves trading for wide receivers doesn't translate to championships. Just another reason why Boldin may not be the answer.

Boldin would be a great addition to your squad. He brings intangibles and knows how to score. I think DeSean will be the first good receiver your team has drafted in years but Boldin will be the way you guys get back to the superbowl.

I'm sure the price will be high, I'm juts saying how can a guy with better overall production numbers than almost every receiver in the game not be considered a "difference maker"?  I am not sure what I would give up, but if he truly is on the block then I ask one simple question when evaluating: Is that player an upgrade over what the Birds currently have?  In Boldin's case it is an easy yes.  The Giants are a pretty successful team, with a very good defense yet they have gone out and bolstered what was already a strenght.  Why?  Because the players they brought in were upgrades.  Now, if the Birds had only enough money to sign one player I wouldn't focus on Boldin, but like I said, is he an upgrade?  Big time. 

Again, we're talking about a "difference maker." Their words, not mine. Houshmandzadeh is not a deep threat either, and the Eagles passed. Teams don't generally roll coverage to underneath receivers like Housh and Boldin. You can chip guys like them with linebackers or safeties without committing a second man in coverage. Deep threats demand double teams because teams don't want to be burned by the big play. If Jackson becomes a legit downfield threat and commands extra attention, it will open things up for Curtis, Avant, Celek and whoever else  is underneath and in the slot. Then you don't need Boldin. Is he bigger and stronger than what the Birds have? Of course. But giving up a 1st round pick for a guy who is basically a glorified tight end seems steep to me, especially if you can use that pick on an actual tight end who can also help block in the run game. I still like Boldin, but "if" he is put on the block, the Cardinals' asking price is gonna be extremely high, IMO.

I see what your point is, but I would argue that what the Eagles need is not a deep threat.  Jackson can be that guy.  I look at pur production and its undeniable that Boldin is among the best at that.  He has averaged 6+ catches and 80+ yards a game for his career.  Like you said, stats don't lie.  If you compare those stats to the best receivers in football, Boldin's are just as good or better than everyone, icluding Fitzgerald.   I think his impact would be huge.  He is too big and strong to be single covered, and that would open up so many more options for the Eagles offense.  It would allow guys like Jackson to have more success.  Look at the difference in the Giants offense with no Burress.  The most successful offenses tend to have a receiver that demands coverage to be rolled to him.  Jackson is good but neither him or Curtis demand that from a defense.  Avant did a nice job on 3rd down, but Boldin is an amazing 3rd down weapon.  I just think there are so many unmeasurables other than the fact that his YPC isn't among the top.

If it means keeping him out of the Giants, he might be worth a little bit more than you might otherwise pay.

Nice breakdown as always Scott.  I think you're right in that Boldin is not the type of down field threat that Eagles fans crave.  But Eagles already have down field WR in Jackson, sSo I'm not sure that is what this team needs most out of a WR.  If the Eagle could get Boldin for a reasonable price, I would definetly go out and get him.  That being said, I don't think WR is this team's biggest need so I certainly would not purge all of the draft picks for the sole purpose of getting Boldin.

Jason, not sure if the comment on Cutler was tounge-in-cheek, but I actually wrote a post on that topic today. To sum it up: I think the talk around Cutler is nonsense.

Oh know! The trade McNabb chants have begun. I think thin skinned girly man Cutler would have a wee bit of trouble with Philly fans ;o)

Our receivers are fine.  I know I'm prolly in the minority on this but we don't have trash like Torrence Small and Charles Johnson anymore.  Whats killed the team, esp in the red zone, is not having a go to tight end since Chad Lewis retired.  Celek showed some progress this season so hopefully he can be that guy.

Instead on using a pick on Boldin I say McNabb + 2nd for Jay Cutler =)